LostKnightsRPG.org

In response to input from various people, and the process of general editing, there will be a trickle of rules changes over the coming month. I'll try to keep them minimal, and post them here until they are incorporated into the WoDFate system doc.

So far:
Background dots = 6 not 5. I originally told you the other way around.

Rotes for jedi = 5, may be purchased from ANY path associated with your focus (life, forces, space if you are a guardian for example), and may not exceed your ranks in the path it is associated with or your Force Trait, whichever is higher. This allows Jedi more versatility, makes rotes matter more, and gives them a bit of extra discretionary XP.

Discretionary xp = 25 for jedi

Hey, before I finalize things in the revised doc, I wanted to run some things past you.

1- Jedi Focuses
These are of limited canon validation, primarily a game thing they are. But some mechanism needs to exist to provide differentiation in a game that will likely see multiple jedi in a single party. Are there other ways to do this that would be better, and/or should the mechanics of this be different?

2- Paths
The favored paths by Focus, as they were discussed last time, are:
Guardian - Life Forces Space
Sentinel - Space Time Mind
Consular - Mind Fate Life

Are these adequate, or are there problems here? Do people see a better organization, paths that should fall under another focus, etc.? Also, should there be more Paths per Focus, less, a list of general paths... I've gotten a few complaints in on this, and wanted to see if anyone else had any problems. I'm pretty firm in the opinion that some mechanism needs to exist to prevent cherry picking all the best powers, and to provide distinction between various characters, but I'm amenable to what that mechanism is.

Please comment soonish (we're out of school now, so you have no lives and i know this... )

You might note the things that we were told regarding the paths that aren't listed here. Things like "Matter and Death are primarily used by Dark Siders in general and Sith in specific." and "Spirit is a very uncommon path." plus anything else that is relevant.

Okay so having talked to you a bit, I think we've come to some conclusions I am happy with.

1) I don't mind the Guardian, Sentinel, Consular roles being used to differentiate the Jedi Template as a whole. I suggest making sure there is an understanding about what each of those is however. There is very little outside video game canon to suggest what this is. Within that paradigm however: Guardians are the warriors of the Jedi, and focus heavily on Lightsaber combat, Consulars are the diplomats, and focus strongly on using the Force, and Sentinels are in the middle striking a balance between the two.

If anyone has any other useful info on these types it might be useful to list that here, as it can help to shore up peoples idea of what these roles will represent in the game. Its also important to note these roles, as a certain amount of discretion should be used by players when making their characters. If you're going to have a bunch of combat powers, and run around hitting things with your lightsaber... you aren't a Consular.

2) I like the removal of Space as a primary path for any of the Jedi... its just not a strong option. It provides very little room for improvement as almost all its useful (and applicable) rotes occur at the first dot, and those abilities are pretty generic.

3) So For the classes it could maybe look something like this:
Consular- Fate, Life, Mind, Prime
Guardian- Fate, Forces. Life
Sentinel- Forces, Mind, Time

Jedi Consular get an extra path as a primary to help round them out as predominant Force users of the 3 types. To compensate for this Sentinels might get an extra specialty or rote skill (maybe both), and Guardians get another specialty in a physical skill (or in weaponry for a specific lightsaber form).

This isn't as symmetrical as the previous stuff, but it does help represent each of the roles a bit better imo. Consular as primary Force users, Guardians as combatants, and Sentinels as a versatile median class.

I think that this is a good place to start from if any changes are to occur. I know Cheyne has been doing a lot of work on this, and it is appreciated. I think with just a little more it will be a pretty good foundation for an exciting, and flavorful game.

Some of the above came from a RL conversation between us. I think I like the above direction but wanted to get more input. The move to the above Path layout seems strong (space just isn't versatile enough to be on the list imo), and giving a little extra freebie to each isn't all that bad, helps to alter the feel between characters more.

I like the idea of prime being added as a focus path to the consular, though I wasn't sure if it would unbalance anything. Another option to show the force-centric nature of the consulars might be a specialization in occult(force) to be more in keeping with the bonuses mentioned for the other two jedi types. (I do personally like the idea of adding prime though).

As far as rotes and xp changes go, it looks cool, I think it better expresses the jedi powers. I had wondered though, since rotes kind of flesh the paths jedi arent' likely putting sphere dots in, is there any reason to keep them within the focus paths? I can see it helpful to do so to help keep some distinction among the different jedi types, but I kind of think it would be interestig for characters to be able to have a rote that is out of the norm for their type, especially if there were an interesting story behind how they learned it.

I have little opinion on retaining or omitting space as a primary path. If the people who'll be using it don't think its a good fit with SW then I'd say take it out.

I have like everything I've seen for the game so far and can't wait to try it out.

Personally I think it all works out to be pretty even given that Consulars are just getting an option (although a really nice one), where as the other two are getting actual one time bonuses. Its the difference in long term, and short term gains I suppose. Over all I think the Consulars are getting the best deal, but not by much.

Giving the Sentinels extra rote skills or specialties, gives them actual dice increases to their important pools. While handing the Guardian an extra skill specialty in physical skills, means they could potentially have a weaponry die pool of 6 or 7 starting out. Meanwhile, Consulars are getting decreased xp costs on a whole extra path of powers. Its not as immediately beneficial, but it means that long term, Consulars are going to be able to use more of the Force in a broader arena.

That said I see Consulars as the quintessential Jedi class. I feel like letting them be slightly more appealing to the players is okay.

What you are talking with rotes outside focuses Ange can be done by taking the Force Talent merit. You are right in that it is a neat way to provide characters interesting power options outside their normal boundaries. I think there may also be a way in the newest revisions being worked on to buy rotes outside your focused paths at an increased cost, but the details are still in flux.

Oh, and we aren't talking about removing Space entirely... just not having it as a primary path for any of the Jedi classes. It has appropriate, and useful things. Just not a lot of them, and with very little room or reason to buy more than a dot or two in Space ever.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the cost of a focus's paths is not different from any other paths, right? The only difference is whether or not it is a primary path, so all counselors are really gaining here is another choice for one of their primary paths. While this does make them more flexible force users as a group, it does not actually make individual counselors any more or less powerful. They are not getting any net savings on xp, since they still have two primary paths, same as all other Jedi - they just get four choices for their focus's primary instead of three.

Very cool. Thanks for clarifying those two latter points.

Having been talking w/ Cheyne my understanding is that Rotes can only be bought for paths which are a character's Focused paths. So having 4 paths count as Focuses opens up a wider range of options for Consulars.

I know he has also talked about letting characters buy Rotes outside their focused paths, but at an increased points cost. Though that is in flux. Either way it gives Consulars increased versatility, and options with the Force. It will save xp as it allows them to buy more rotes instead of whole dots in a path, or path dots at a decreased cost. So its a big advantage to those characters. It just isn't as immediately apparent.

Josh says things, so that I don't have to. Thank you for bearing my cross, the burden of typing was too great to a weight upon my soul.

Ok, if rotes are limited, or at least cost-dependent on path focuses, then yes, that's a pretty good advantage for counselors and I think that's a pretty good place for the three focuses to be in (barring revelations from actual play).

Oh yea, lay thy burdens before me... and I shall feed them forth unto our salvation. Of course by 'burdens' I mean babies, and by 'salvation' I mean Raptor Jesus.

Steven-Kitty licks my screen...

Here is the break down for experience spending: you get 4, 3, and 2 to be spent on groups, distributed however you like.

Group 1: Attributes, Species traits, Conviction/Force, Willpower
Group 2: Skills, Specialties, Moralities
Group 3: Merits, Paths, Rotes, Skill Tricks