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Not having Outside Fate keep the Manse itself and the location of anything within outside the perview of the Loom, people and objects still exist on the Loom but are hard to find. Generally, unless you expect to have the Sidereals all over you trying to find the Manse, it probably isn't worth the creation points. Hidden Manse will largely keep people from finding it, and while it would still exist on the Loom, it'll probably be overlooked.

I will contemplate manse design further, and i will pm you my idea for the rest of the manse complex.

also, i read the sidereal style sutra rules, and it implies that only the actual sutra would need to be learned as sidereal (the first form type charm, and the last charm). here is the passage:

Each Sidereal style has a “student” and an “elder”
sutra. Only the Chosen of Fate (or Eclipse and Moonshadow
Caste Exalted who learn the Charms as a
Sidereal) can suffi ciently master Sidereal styles that they
can use these sutras. A martial artist learns the student
sutra upon learning the style’s Form-type Charm and
the elder sutra after completing the entire style. Using
either sutra requires the Sidereal to inscribe its text on a
prayer strip in advance and then spend a Willpower point
when he wants to use it. The prayer strip shines with a
light characteristic of the style and rises to fl oat beside
the character for the scene. Invoking the student’s sutra
reduces the cost of using Charms from that style by fi ve
motes per action. (In a Combo, subtract fi ve motes from
the total cost, not from the cost of using each Charm
of the style that makes up the Combo.) The elder sutra
reduces that cost by 10 motes and one Willpower per
action. Elder sutras cannot reduce the Willpower cost
of using Charms from that style below zero, and neither
sutra can bring the total Essence cost of the style’s Charms
below one mote in a given action.
Elder sutras trump student sutras. The two effects
cannot be combined, but one may simultaneously use
the sutras for two or more distinct styles

i ask because i'm doing my progression chart so i need to know the xp costs

Because of the generally overwhelming power of Sidereal Martial Arts, and the fact that they're supposed to act as the balance for Sidereal power against Solar Circle Sorcery, Void Circle Necromancy, and shapeshifting, I rule that all charms of a Sidereal style must be learned as a Sidereal in order to qualify for the sutra abilities. They are simply too overpowered otherwise. Keep in mind that it is exceedingly unlikely that the Sidereal mentor will actually be willing to teach you Siddie styles, as they rarely or never even taught the styles to Solars in the First Age, much less now. The Sidereals don't want to eliminate their advantage like that, and they want to keep the new incoming Solars at a managable power level while they establish whether or not to kill them all again. This goes double for Abyssals, because they don't know where they're from or what they're capable of.

does that mean that i will not be able to learn it as sidereal, or that i won't be able to learn it at all? cuz that's the only reason i took the 5 dots in backgrounds really... i have grown attached to the prismatic style.

and i'm fine w/that ruling. just making sure it was the house ruling, as i remembered you saying something about it before.

You (and so far, only you, since no one else is a Moonshadow or Eclipse) would be able to learn the style as a Sidereal. If you want to be able to take advantage of the Student and Master Sutras, you would need to learn the entire style as a Sidereal, because the Sutras are diffused throughout the style and the use of Sutras and Prayer Strips is inherently a part of the Sidereal Exaltation.

I won't say you'll never be able to learn the style from him, but as a two dot mentor, and seeing as how you're an Abyssal, a largely unknown factor to the Sidereals as a whole (remember, people in game know much less than those of us out of game do), he won't be willing to teach it to you right off the bat.

Teaching any non-Sidereal a Sidereal style is against their rules (I think its a Severity 5, I'd have to look). Heck, even teaching you Violet Bier of Sorrows Style is a Severity 3 offense. In the begining, and until he starts to suspect that you may be related to Solars, he's probably going to assume you're not even capable of learning them - most creatures in Creation aren't.

While he does know the style (several styles, Celestial and Sidereal) he won't exactly advertise that fact either. Sidereals have long-ago learned to play their cards close to their chests as a means of defending themselves.

I should also note, this guy is actually not going to know the Compassion style, he's going to be contracting the instruction of it out to a small god (I haven't quite decided who yet, possible the small god of first aid) as an exorcise in irony and, he'll be blunt about it, he's calling in a favor owed to him for it, He'll be willing to teach most other Celestial Styles he knows (probably not VBoS Style though) more directly, he just doesn't actually qualify for the Compassion style and I couldn't get him to be the character I needed him to be with a Compassion of 5.

I will note for everyone, he can be almost any Mentor value you need him to be, he certainly qualifies for a lot, being less than that value means he just isn't willing to teach you as much as he otherwise would. I've got him (mostly) stat'd out, and I've got some plans for what he'll be doing, since he's fairly obviously (from a metagame standpoint) involved with several characters. Note that you'll probably know him via a Resplindent Destiny, which I'll have to write up later, because it takes a while, so unless he's been in your presence without it off, you won't have any idea who he really is. Most of you have probably never even heard of a Sidereal Exalt.

well, it will be several hundred xp before it is even an issue.

and I can take higher mentor; I just took what u said would be sufficient. or I can spend xp on it if that is allowed. or prove myself useful.

there very few charms i'm interested in from him aside from the style, really only 1 integrity and 2 resistance charms I reeeeeeeeealy want. other than that I don't care.

Have you looked at Necromancy or Sorcery yet? As an Abyssal you (and Solars) have 5 circles worth of magical displine with very little in the way of pre-reqs that you can cherry-pick through. I imagine that you'll find that more charms are more useful to you as the game plays out, elsewise you may want to consider that Abyssals may not be for you :P

oh, I meant that's all I was interested in from the sidereal.

I have @ least 31 other charms I want, not to mention spells, from the abysal trees. especially in occult, integrity, and awareness. I even am taking a little dark messiah style for increased damage, since compassion style doesn't have any to speak of.

the only non-abyssal stuff I want so far is:
transcendent hero's med. (integrity-solar)
compassionate essence replen. (integrity-sidereal)
optimistic security practice (resist-sidereal)
heartless maiden trance (resist-sidereal)
inevitable pursuit (awareness-sidereal)
dexterity excellency (dex-lunar)
perception excellency (per-lunar)

i'm just trying to get kinks worked out for getting them since they require more background work. and b/c they are fucking incredible

just tell me if I need higher b.grounds.

You lot need names for your characters. :P

Merl and Merl Jr.... yeah.. thats what I want for names...

actually I cannot find an example of any named NPCs that are from the Cloister of Wisdom.... and speaking of which it says I may have a free dot of MA with GM approval... may I please?


EDIT: Introducing Jade [Sage] of the Oaken Bow and his cousin [Oak] Crushing Void (or Ocean Consuming Void)

[] equals familar name used...

If you want help with names here is where I got the inspiration for mine... it never actually generated either name
http://www.voidstate.com/name_generator/index.php

The only one I can think of right off the top of my head is "Immanent Thunder". Many others still use their House+Given names, a good example of which is Ragara Myrrun, who knows all of the Immaculate MA styles and several others besides. You'd have heard of him, he's one of only three Dragonblooded Immaculate Grand Masters.

do you keep begging the dragon each time you take a non-aspected immaculate form? hopefully it is only till you master your first form or first non-aspected form but I am curious... also the restriction to learning charms other than the form only applies to other MA styles not normal ability charms (including MA) correct??

Begging the dragon works like this:

I am (for example) Earth Aspected. I decide (against everyone's advice) to learn Fire Dragon Style. From the moment I learn the first charm until the time I master the final charm in the style, I pay an additional mote to activate ALL of my charms, regardless of aspect. However, once I finish mastering the style I stop paying the extra amount for all charms. In fact, I no longer pay a mote surcharge for Earth charms (because I'm an Earth Aspect and never did, except while I was begging the dragon) OR Fire charms. So now for 2/5 of all Dragonblooded charms, I no longer pay a surcharge. If I, hypothetically, become an Immaculate Grand Master and master all five Elemental Dragon styles, I no longer pay a mote surcharge for any Dragonblooded charms (and, by extension, any charms I am able to learn).

To extend this, we're back to having mastered Fire Dragon Style as an Earth Aspect Exalt. Lets say I then decide that I'd like to learn Air Dragon Style. Again, from the moment I start until I finish, I pay a one mote surcharge on all charms (including Earth and Fire) until I finish. However, once finished, I no longer pay the surcharge for Earth, Fire, OR Air charms.

While I am learning any of these Immaculate styles, or any other Celestial martial arts charms (Solar Hero, Snake, Tiger, Mantis, Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, any of the Virtue styles, etc) I am unable to learn ANY other Martial Arts style charms at the Celestial level. If I decide that I want to learn a Terrestrial style, it makes learning EVERY SINGLE other Celestial style charm I have left to learn in that tree more expensive, and it gets more and more expensive the more charms are learned at the Terrestrial level. This does not apply to charms of other abilities, and though it doesn't say it, I won't be applying it to Martial Arts excellencies either (because that would be retarded and mean).

thanks for the detailed response... that is what I was looking for...



quote I found on the WW forums while looking for other answers

Sure, there's no way canonically to do it, but Exalted allows you to knee canon in the crotch and rifle through its pockets to take what you need while it whimpers on the ground. - Mockery

so. I looked @ the black treatise last night, and have decided necro sucks.

all it does is screw w/ghosts and raise the dead. sure, there's like 1 good damage spell, but there isn't much else. I think i'm dropping it from my list.

and I don't think i'm gonna do hamster style anymore.