LostKnightsRPG.org

back of lunar book. it is basically what you are looking for. though you could probably just buy it from PAC (the one that lets you take new anima effects) and get the effect you are looking for more easily, as steven says.

That is exactly what I wanted, that works out very well, and cuts out one more charm, YAY!!!

well, you still have to buy it, but it won't be a part of the new tree.

As a note, that charm also doesn't last very long and costs a health level. It may be OK to get some sort of augment or enhancement to that which lets you make the banner change-over last longer or at least less damaging.

What circle of demon are you going to able to banish with the strike?

I was looking though the siddie ma's and I was wondering what other siddie ma styles require that you know a prereq siddie ma? I did not see any, and I was wondering why have a ma prereq to this style?

Edit: i could see having to know 2nd circle sorc.

PAC requires knowing an entire celestial style.

this is based on several techs in PAC. and on sorcery, so yeah, it should prob have a sorcery prereq too.

The Form-type charm of all Sidereal MAs require knowing an entire Celestial MA style.

Based on what you just said then poac should not be a preq, but it should require a celestial ma. I think its a little extreme to require 1 celestial and 1 siddie ma when the standard in the game is just 1 celestial ma.

as i already said, he wants to create charms based upon those that already exist within PAC. so he needs it as a prereq if he wants to make charms based upon it. also, in terms of flavor it is appropriate b/c he is making an art based upon raw essence use/manipulation and refinement, and PAC lays the groundwork for that.

Given that it is a particularly high-level art, requiring another SMA is not unreasonable.

I cite Border of Kalideoscopic Logic style. Just because all other MA styles start with lower Essence requirements doesn't mean that there aren't those that you can't even start until Essence 6.

I understand what you said, and I disagree. There are other non-ma charms that manipulate essence, and that should be the prereq. Poac's idea came from some where.

Requiring non-MA charms for an MA, unless those charms are Sorcery charms, is dumb. That would mean that only one type of Exalted could use the style, which voids the purpose of MA in the first place (ie: that it is a way of manipulating essence with meditation and concentrated movements and is independent of Exaltation type, or indeed of Exaltation at all)

Technically ALL charms manipulate Essence. The only charms that directly manipulate essence are Lore charms, and requiring lore for an MA makes no sense at all. There is absolutely no reason that one MA can't require another MA as a pre-requisite. In fact, we already have an example of that (all currently printed SMA styles).

The logic for this is easy:
Character A (who is, for the sake of this example, a Sidereal) learns an entire CMA Style. We'll say its Violet Bier of Sorrows (VBoS) Style, because thats the natural Siddie style.

Character A then goes on to learn Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Style, as it is an SMA will relatively low pre-requisites and is stated as often being the first SMA style that Sidereals learn.

Character A then goes on to pick up both Terrestrial and Celestial Circle Sorcery, because he's got nothing better to do.

Character A then reasons: "Sometime back in the past, an enlightening Sidereal looked at the very nature of Creation, composed of Essence, and said - I bet I could make a Martial Art out of that. And it was good. Now I see Sorcery, a way of focusing Essence through essential patterns ingraned into Creation itself in order to achieve a specific result. Sorcery doesn't require that the user be exalted - just like a MA - and it doesn't matter what sort of Essence User the caster is - Just like MA! I bet I could make a martial art with which I could focus essence to make casting better/easier."

Character A, using the foundations already laid by Character B (who created PAoC Style) conceptualizes a new martial art. (I think this has rules, checking that now).

Character A learns said martial arts style (this new style wer're discussing).

???

Profit!

Its not that i do not understand why you think its a good idea. I think its gay that poac its the prereq. Poac is no longer the cool ma siddies learn, now its the 160xp blockaid to inventing something accually cool. The orginal siddies must have had some sort of inspiration that was not poac for the styles, and i would bet those ideas came from a combo of celestial ma and siddie.

Edit: I assumed we were talking required charms to invent not prereqs to learn

while everything steven says i agree with, there are additional reasons, one of which i have repeatedly said but seems to be mis-interpreted: paul wants to make expansion charms for an existing MA. Normally the only way to do this is to make a new martial art, or be a natural practitioner of a hero style you want to expand (which siddies can't even do for reasons of retarded rules and story fluff).

specifically, he wants to expand this:
SPELL-SHATTERING PALM (LI)
Cost: 12m; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 4;
Type: Refl exive (Step 5)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The character launches a precise strike of Essence to
knock apart the careful construction of a sorcery effect. Upon
contact with such a construction, the martial artist activates
this Charm and her player attempts a refl exive, unarmed
(Dexterity + Martial Arts) attack. The diffi culty equals the
sorcerer’s Essence plus the spell’s circle. If the Sidereal succeeds,
the spell shatters as if dispelled by an equal circle of
countermagic (with the concomitant effects).
The Exalt can deal even more damage if someone actually
casts a spell within her reach and her player succeeds
on an unarmed Martial Arts attack roll. She can choose to
shatter the spell as normal or cause the entire structure to
unravel as if the sorcerer had botched a distraction roll. (See
Exalted, p. 251 for more information.)
This Charm functions against necromancy as well as
sorcery, but only if the Sidereal Exalted has had opportunity
to study this black art of the Abyssal Exalted

and this:
(TYPE) EXALT WAYS (YOU PAN)
Cost: 10m, 1hl; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 4;
Type: Simple
Keywords: Obvious, Touch
Duration: Five actions
Prerequisite Charms: None
The character strikes his crown, brow, throat, spine and
abdomen chakras in that order, forcibly reshaping his Essence
and altering how his anima interacts with the world. This
“Charm” is actually a set of Charms, each of which allows
the character to mimic the anima banner and anima effects
of one other type and caste of Exalted for fi ve full actions.
For instance, a Sidereal could choose No Moon Lunar Ways,
Zenith Solar Ways, Air-aspected Terrestrial Ways, or the ways
of any other sort of Exalt, even other Sidereal castes. Each must
be bought separately. The Sidereal must choose which Exalt
Ways Charm he activates, and he cannot change his decision
until the duration expires. This Charm temporarily replaces
the Exalt’s anima banner, but it doesn’t change his caste mark
or hinder his ability to make his Maiden’s Lesser Sign.
The character adds his Essence in automatic successes
to one of the relevant caste’s favored Attributes or Abilities
while this Charm operates. He can choose a new Attribute
or Ability each time he invokes this Charm. Knowing Exalt
Ways—even Eclipse Solar Ways or Moonshadow Abyssal
Ways—does not allow a Sidereal to purchase otherwise
forbidden Charms.

He could make these exact same charms part of the new style's tree, despite already having the prereqs... but that would be dumb. Also, making a MA tree that buffs other martial arts is novel territory, but certainly within the realm of MA as a whole.

Finally, PAoC is still GOD. and one of the few Sidereal arts that works as printed, and has actual mechanics. which means that i allow it to exist (very important for practitioners that their art actually work). PAoC is in no way gimped by being used as a prerequisite. That would be like saying that Dark Messiah form is shitty, just b/c it is a pre-req for VAP