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Rusty
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Post by Rusty »

I...don't think that skills like that from the supers book are really appropriate to the setting. This isn't a superhero setting, even though there are people with superpowers. I think the wildcard skills are broken quite enough. I absolutely don't like the idea of a skill, however expensive, that blanketly allows the use of *all* vehicles and vehicle weapons. that seems a little much. I mean, that's fine for comic books, but that's really not the feel I'm going for. We should be getting the TL and device appropriate skills.
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Post by rydi »

problem is, the skills are overly cut up in gurps. wildcards help resolve that by putting everything together in a nice oganic package. medicine! for example gets you diagnostics, the physician skills, surgeon, electronics (medical), etc. and that's all stuff you have to have a general working knowledge of coming out of med school, and stuff that can't really be utilized without the all of it together, but the system nonetheless parces it out in little chunks. Mechanical and electrical skills are the same way. most of them should actually be the same skill, at least at lower lvls, which then could become specializations at higher levels of skill (general Dr. versus a radiologist or whatever)

The wildcard skills are still steep, and in many ways they prevent min/maxing, as they prohibit a character from maxing out a low-cost skill (the cost of a wildcard is at max difficulty, very hard, and then multiplied by 3), and instead forces characters to gain a more broad understanding. Guns! is also a good example of this. while there are certainly some differences between guns, with a few uses to familiarize oneself, point and click is still point and click. having not flown a plane i can't really make any statements regarding it, but it would seem that the same concept would be viable, especially if an individual had broad training in different types of aircraft, and the general knowledge of what information is necessary to perfom the task ("ok, this plane has to have a speed gauge somewhere, and an altitude, and a tilt..."). And if you are used to flying fighters in which you simply line up targets and fire (point and click) i don't see why the skills would vary significantly between craft, again assuming a short period of familiarization.

that said however, i think it more balanced to go with the original Pilot! paul had cooked up if there were an argument between the two. gunning and flying at the same time could be a viable skill, but for mechanics, and to a certain degree, realism, i think it would be better to describe Pilot! as the electronics, stearing, and navigation required to fly a plane/spaceship/whatever.

or we can not go with wildcards. that works too. just need to know what the call is.
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Rusty
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Post by Rusty »

I think wildcards will probably be ok, they do represent batteries of training, and wit the modular skill points advantage out there they don't really unbalance things that much. They should not, however, be good for "any vehicle of any kind". That doesn't really make any sense.

Please crossexamine your skill choices and sources, to make sure we are keeping with a sci fi feel. At some point during the break I will look at everyone's character sheets very thoroughly and indicate if anything needs clarification or revision.
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Post by Amseriah »

OK, I would request more input please. My exposure to sci-fi is limited only to star trek (some of the original but mostly NG), star wars, firefly/serenity, and star forge. So I don't know what golden age sci-fi is/was. Please educate. I just don't want to have a character that totally detracts from what the feel of the game is supposed to be. The two main inspirations for my character were firefly and star trek...more to the point: what would Jayne be like as a Klingon. While I really like the idea of the character I can make a different one that fits in more with a "Go boldly to make friends" type game. I just need to know more about what we are looking at. Even in the original Star Trek, Starfleet was at war with the Klingons (and maybe the Romulans I don't remember if the original had them or if they started in Next Gen). The reason that I decided to make my character kinda combat heavy is because the basic premise of the game was from my understanding: There is peace, but the probes that you sent out years and years ago to look for alien life came back with a distress signal, you don't know whether these people were in a battle and got shot down or if they just ran out of power, go forward and find out proceed with caution and prepare for the possibility of hostile conditions. I am not complaining, it may sound like I am...I am happy to play in the game whatever the style, but I would like to know more of what it is supposed to be...should we be soldiers and explorers or should we be diplomats and ambassadors???
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Post by Rusty »

your character is fine paul, recall in starforge we had a team of scientists that hid behind one fighter. Now we have a team of fighters that hide behind one scientist, it's fine.

Also, just to clarify, there were no probes, it was a long range message intended to propagate into forever. We received a signal back.

jayrf is fine.
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Post by Amseriah »

Yay!!!!! Errrrr.....excuse me...Gorram Shiny
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Post by rydi »

the wildcards are broken into pilot! drive! sailor! movement! (athletics style stuff) for types of gettin' around.
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Post by Thael »

Cheyne's Supers quote here.. blah blah blah
well Cheyne I hate you for making me go dig through the SJ boards AGAIN to find the post that dealt with wildcard skills... rot in hell you soul-sucking life force...

Re: [KROMM] Defaulting to a Wildcard Skill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd allow it. Wildcard skills include and replace all of the skills they cover. That's for all purposes. If you have a wildcard skill, you truly know all of its built-in skills at the same level, and can default to them as necessary.

It would be silly if the rules let an important skill like Merchant be part of a wildcard skill -- say, Hooker! -- but went on to deny access to Merchant defaults for Accounting, Administration, Economics, Finance, Market Analysis, and Propaganda, which might not be covered by the wildcard skill. That would force the character to buy a triple-cost skill and then buy one of the included skills, making it effectively quadruple-cost, just to get the benefits. Ugh.
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and to add the bit of humor following so it will satisfy peoples curiosity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
Uh, what does Hooker! cover?

The three blocks between Water Street and Main Street.

:)

I have no idea, really -- it was just an example. It's cinematic, so I suppose Acting, Carousing, Dancing, Erotic Art, Makeup, Merchant, Savoir-Faire (Mafia), Sex Appeal, Streetwise, and Whip.
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and heres the link http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.ph ... #post96674

*bbbtttthhhhh*
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Post by rydi »

still not raw, just an expression of designer intent. and who cares what the designers think, anyway?
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Thael
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Post by Thael »

well the excerpt you provided merely said they "shouldn't" not that they don't... and it recommended not allowing it in various ways... RAW would indicate that since wildcards replace their component skills for ALL purposes that Talents would add to them... this is explicitly done in the MA book when you use Techniques and Wildcards together and the Techniques apply to all the skills under the Wildcard (within reason) but the skill level in the Wildcard counts for pre-reqs that the Techniques require to allow purchase if they cover the skill normally used (the boards explained this using the Sword! skill qualifying for a Technique that required Sword:X specialty at a given rank to qualify)...
That which is not dead can eternal lie and with strange eons even death may die
My Color is Blue
I value Knowledge, logic, and deceit. I love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At my best, I am brilliant and progressive. At my worst, I am treacherous and cold. My symbol is a water droplet. My enemies are green and red.
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Post by Alpha Phoenix »

Cheyne, thanks for the info! I have a couple of questions:

1. From the boards, I get that Wildcard skills (Drive! Medicine! et al) are high-expense conglomerated-skills that encompass a range of closely-related skills. Now, do I remove "Physician" and "Physiology" and such from my character? Basically, what skills should (or should I not) remove from my skills list *embarrassed*.

2. I will search for the actual powers tonight when I re-vamp my character. How do I put in "psi-ability"? Is that possible on the Gurp Assistant, or do we just put in the calculations ourselves? Also, do I still need the "skills," er...psi-talents...that I have right now?

3. I am going to post a revised history, taking into account the Utopian GF society, for my character soon. :-)
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Post by Thael »

If you have the GURPS Assistant you can look in the details of the Wildcard you are thinking of taking and see which skills it replaces... Medicine! for example covers
Medicine!: (page BT214) Includes Biology, Diagnosis, Electronics Operation (Medical), Expert Skill (Epidemiology), First Aid, Hypnotism, Pharmacy, Physician, Physiology, Poisons, Psychology, Surgery, and Veterinary. Also Bioengineering and Esoteric medicine with GM permission.
So any individual skills you were looking to take that are not listed would still be needed... There are others out there that people have made and would likely need Gideon's approval but the ones in books I am guessing are fine (it should list a book/page like above instead of a persons name)

as far as Psi-Powers I believe things you might expect to be of a psi nature have a limitation usually listed for Psi but I get the feeling you could add it to anything that made sense (like Invisibility) and it typically has the same discount percentage that Cheyne mentioned but he appears to be more in tune with that since I was focused reading elsewhere...
That which is not dead can eternal lie and with strange eons even death may die
My Color is Blue
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Post by rydi »

basically, what thael said.

psi is just a modifier you can apply to anything remotely appropriate, to discount it by -10%. there are also modifiers that can be taken with some powers, that are listed in the power descriptions. there are also lists of possible power modifiers listed after the powers section in their own section, and these can be applied to any appropriate powers.

powers are wierd. they include: a selection of advantages that may be taken, a talent that encompasses all skill/attribute rolls made to use the power, and modifiers that effect the power as a whole and increase the price of any advantage taken (and you can also take seperate modifiers to each of the individual advanages within a power) the talents are only useful in making rolls, much like skill talents. if you took talent: Theivery, you would get a bonus for all rolls involving a pre-chosen set of skills involving stealing stuff, and you would pay an amount based upon the number of skills being effected. for powers, talents effect everything within that power that could make a roll (regen probably wouldn't be effected, but your aerobatics roll with flight might). A typical power might be:

PK
talent: PK [5/lvl]
advantages: Flight [60](space +50%), TK [5/lvl], Control [?](fire/cold), Healing, Control Temperature [5/lvl], etc.
all advantage purchases are reduced by [-20%] off the above listed prices due to the following limiters: Psi -10%; Costs fatigue (2 initial, then 1/minute maintained) -10%

i know nothing about the character generator. i did all my stuff by hand. i should probably go in and do it just to know how and to save it in a standardized format however.

all your medical skills except Medicine! go away. other science skills might be useful (chemistry) but are not required.

also, your story was nice. from what i understood from gideon, you would just have to make your society's problems much more brief, sinc the GF wouldn't let such injustice stand for long. unless you are just going to do a total re-write.
Last edited by rydi on Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Amseriah »

As for Pilot! I basically took the template presented in the main book for what Guns! does and applied it to vehicles. Guns! includes all of the operating, repair, and maintenence skills necessary for a guns character. Also in regards to Pilot! not having any of the gunnery skills, that was on purpose since I already included ship maintenance, repair, and navigation which I thought were more applicable. Besides, if I remember correctly, Guns! has gunnery included in its suite.
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Post by Alpha Phoenix »

Thanks Thael~! :-) And Cheyne, too! Lol, how can you do this all by hand? I remember my days of trying to get a D&D character out by hand...I am now addicted to Heroforge, lol. I guess I can make a character by hand if forced, but there would be kicking and screaming involved o_O =-O.

I really plan on pounding out these rules issues during the break, but I really appreciate all the help from you guys in straightening things to a rough resolution right now. I am sorry if I ask things that have already been resolved on the boards, though (I hate doing that!); I usually try to peruse the thread before I post anything to see if my questions have already been answered.

Okay, as for my history, here goes:

Asa (AY-sah) is a Human born on the rimward (backwater) planet of Heimat. The planet spends a good deal of its orbit along the fringes, and sometimes even within the outer layers, of Iridihelios: a large nebula that is the remnant of a star that went supernova approximately three millennia in the past. The short-ranged radiation emissions from Iridihelios bombard the northern pole of Heimat (because of the tilt of the planet's axis, the north pole is the portion of the world that receives, by far, the highest exposure to the nebula). The synchrotron emission from the supernova remnant annually showers the northern hemisphere with very low concentrations of a broad spectrum of EM radiation: from radio waves to gamma rays. The pole is inhospitable due to the sheer saturation of radiation; the bold, adventurous, or those who are just missing a fews cogs (it's amazing how often these three are found hand-in-hand!) visit the poles for short trips, if only to see the beautiful auroras that occur at all times of the year, but no permanent settlements are there.

Asa was born in the northern hemisphere of Heimat, within the more southern latitudes (the inhabited latitudes). People who hail from this region of Heimat have a (relatively) high incidence of psionic abilites; scientists speculate and hypothesize that it is because the radiation incurs mutations within the genome of people that dwell there. This theory is validated by the high incidence of cancer and other mutation-derived pathologies on that continent. Individuals of the planet considered having a mass emigration to the southern continent, thus re-locating everyone to the relatively radiation-free hemisphere, but then the inherent problem of over-crowding could not be resolved.

It is believed that about 1 in 1,000,000 births results in people who have some form of psionic talent; Asa is among this figure. He displayed at a young age eidetic memory: at age 5, he was able to recite, verbatim, an entire chapter-book that he had read only once.

Asa was born into a wealthy upper-middle class family: his father, Caedmon, was a popular politician and his mother, Eir, was a physician. Caedmon supported and legislated bills that cemented the economical stability of his province (he was the provincial governor that resided over the Günstig province of the small eastern state of Silberstadt, a port state on the eastern shoreboard of the northern continent). Eir was a renowned neurosurgeon who served in the capacity as the Dean of the Neurology department of Lyfia, the most renowned medical school and healthcare centre on Heimat. Eir was well-known for her near miraculous treatments; she also was reputed for her successful implementation of alternative medicine (such as herbal medicine) in her practice (at first she was highly criticized for the usage of so-called "quack" medicine; but her antagonists could not deny the effectiveness of her treatments).

Asa was part of a large family: he had four older brothers, and two younger sisters who were twins. He was always close to his siblings throughout his childhood.

At around 19 years of age, when his psionic powers began to manifest in earnest, Asa began to have vivid dreams, nightmares so life-like that it was as if he was experiencing them. He would wake up each night shaking, in a cold sweat. After a year with these recurring nightmares, he began having life-like visions while conscious. These visions and nightmares all depicted experiences that were so alien to him: those of combat and suffering. He would dream of an eclectic montage of horrific scenes that would all defy everything that had been his idyllic reality until now. He had never been in a battle in his life; war was anathema to his society. History courses in school always talked about socioeconomic patterns in planetary civilizations, or trade agreements, or technological developments. These images of suffering disturbed him beyond the ability for words to describe, and he was determined to figure out what he was seeing. He felt he was going crazy; he did not dare tell anyone about his dreams and visions.

Until he came across a history text in the Günstig Provincial Library, a text that pre-dates the formation of the Galactic Federation. He found a historical figure in that text named Lancelot Iscariot (lol...I had to use the name somewhere in the history), who plunged Heimat into its last Dark Age (~700 years ago, before the planet joined the Galactic Federation). The photograph of that man matched perfectly the likeness of the man whose viewpoint Asa's dreams come from (in one dream, Asa's "dream-self" goes to a lavatory facility and stoically washes blood from his hands, while looking up into the mirror at his own face; this is one instance where Asa sees his "dream-self"). He researches more about Lancelot, and does not find much texts on him. History seems to have erased him, as well as every era that pre-dates the Federation.

However, the few texts that had information on Iscariot portray him as a fascist tyrant how usurped power from Heimat's then-centralized planetary government through treachery and deceit. He was painted as one of the most nefarious and vile people to have ever lived. However, Asa knew for sure that these dreams and visions were not mere dreams: he had viewed specific events that were only speculated upon in the few history texts that mentioned this Dark Age, secrets that were lost to the sands of time and known by no one living (e.g. whatever happened to a certain population of prisoners that were being kept at a large fortified prison camp, etc etc). He witnessed first-hand things that actually happened, that were only referenced in passing in a few texts.

Asa came to the conclusion that this depraved excuse for a person, this Lancelot Iscariot, was indeed a past life of his. He delved into religious texts that elaborated upon the belief of reincarnation in order to derive a feasible, if weakly feasible, theory. He never believed in reincarnation before; in fact, his religion precluded the belief in reincarnation. However, the more he read about this spiritual belief, the more he believed that Iscariot was one of his prior incarnations. He surmised that this was perhaps his last reincarnation, before this life, and that his soul was in some purgatory-esque place within the Void until now...being held in check due to his many crimes. Or perhaps he *had* reincarnated as certain "lesser" creatures between his incarnation as Iscariot and his present incarnation; a certain demotion due to the horrible amount of bad karma he accrued as Iscariot. This seemed more likely, as he viewed his current life as far from being a "low-karma" state. Even so, he definitely could not definitively prove any one theory. What he did know, to his satisfaction and deep relief, was that he was not going crazy: mentally unstable individuals such as those suffering from schizophrenia do not have vivid dreams of past events in history.

Thus, his impetus for medicine was conceived. Until now, despite ample prodding from his parents, Asa's ambitions for his future floundered in the indecision of youth. His interests waxed and waned like the phases of the moon; his dedication to one field lasted all of a few months, if that. However, after finding out about Iscariot, he actually believed that he was meant to atone for the grievous sins of his past life. Whether right or wrong, whether or not he really *is* the reincarnation of a cruel and oppressive tyrant from a long-forgotten era (a fact that neither science nor religion nor philosophy can prove or disprove), he *believes* he is; this, in and of itself, is of utmost importance.

He drove himself to pursue a career in medicine. He was accepted into Lyfia, and his eidetic memory certainly helped him with his academic studies. His exceptional manual dexterity, and his telekinetic powers, imbued him with the capacity for exquisitely fine control in surgery. He graduated Lyfia summa cum laude, valedictorian of his class. He became a neurosurgeon, like his mother.

The nightmares still continue to this day. He occasionally has flashbacks from this "past life," as well. These flashbacks can be quite debilitating. Interestingly, the flashbacks and the nightmares have lessened greatly in frequency since he has attained an altruistic and selfless lifestyle. He traveled nearby Federation planets in a kind of intergalactic analog of Doctors-Without-Borders. He did not know that living this selfless lifestyle would lead to a diminishing of the frequency of his visions from the past (admittedly, these nightmares and visions may be lowering in frequency due to a. the natural process of his aging, and the natural re-modeling of synapses that occurs with this process, or b. the distance he is from his planet, and the radiation inherent with living on Heimat), so this definitely was not his motivation for living such a lifestyle. He would like to belief that his being selfless has lessened these "attacks," as he is atoning for his deleterious karma; however, his rational and very intellectual mind allows for the complete denunciation of this rationalization. Asa is a rare and unique mix of intellectuality and spirituality...he does not ascribe to any one religion, but fervently believes in helping those in need, and spreading goodwill.

His soul yearning for adventure, and exploration of the unknown, Asa joined an expedition group tasked with the quest to explore the empty blackness of space. Although he has never been in an actual combat, he is wary of any violent confrontation; during the simulation preparations for the journey, he experienced combat paralysis and and post-combat shakes after each simulation (although he knew fully well that they were mere simulations to prepare against threats). He was trained how to shoot during this training, and took to shooting like a fish does to swimming: naturally. However, in an actual combat simulator, he would be ravaged with mental images from the "past," and would have to fight against paralysis. He is currently 30-years-old. First and foremost, he's a doctor...

Okay, I know it's really long, but please tell me what you guys think of it, k? Thanks! :-)
Last edited by Alpha Phoenix on Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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